Gathering of the Pack 2010

Dog Brothers Gathering 2010

Check out the video here. In the latest Dog Brothers video we see many fighters carrying a blade, and once combat closes to grappling range, blades come out. I think this is a compelling argument to being able to hit someone hard enough that you can drop them, stun them, or immobilize the (i.e. shot to the knee) before they can close and cut you.

Note the interesting two-handed strike at 1:30.

Several interesting exchanges occur when fighters are so focused on the weapon, whether sticks or knives, that an opponent’s kick gets in and hits huge.

Note Guro Crafty’s stick in the photo.

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6 Responses to “Gathering of the Pack 2010”

  1. Very cool! Love the guy who slips that kick to the head in and the guy who runs up the wall. There does seem to be guys ignoring the leg attacks coming in.

    Notice how the two flexible weapons last about 2 seconds before being discarded. I don’t think people feel as threatened by flexible weapons as they do solid ones; also, unless you are highly trained in using them to snare a limb with, their strength as a weapon is limited to their tips and so you need to fight a long distance game. A stick is more useful in close than a flexible weapon in my opinion.

    I too think that the knee would make an excellent target and I’m all about taking out mobility. So many FMA play the sticks as an upper body game.

    Love the hard contact, not sure if I would be there though 😉 I think the dog brothers are the first Americans to make free-style stick fighting popular. I’ve seen FMA sparing rules be some of the larger organizations and they seem to have the same ‘no grappling, no hitting with hands/feet’. Limiting targets can be a good tool in learning but in full sparing you should be able to grapple and punk/kick.

  2. James,

    I was trying to figure out what the point was with the whips, if that’s what they were.

    I’m surprised that GM Estalilla and GM Giron (as far as I can tell) never really emphasized the knee as a target. In my view a key technique is to take out the knee or ankle with the long stick at a safe distance, thereby limiting the opponent’s ability to move in.

    The Dog Bros stuff is rough, but I agree that it’s necessary to cut through the crap of the no contact, all padded sparring that’s so common.

  3. I think you often see a common theme in these fights too, where the flowing siniwali movements don’t exist. The fighters take primal, power oriented shots from the outside and when/ if they close, it quickly moves into grappling. You see none of the hubud/ lubud drills that so many people spend countless hours on. If you get inside one thing is almost guaranteed, one or the other or both fighters will grapple. It re-frames the way in which we should be training the inside range. If you don’t want to grapple and go to the ground, for whatever reason (and I can think of several good ones), maybe forget about parries, traps, passes, and the like and instead focus on knees, elbows, punyo strikes, head-butts, and biting (yeah, really). A Muay Thai style clinch might work, but will probably remove your stick from the striking equation, although you can use it to clinch and hold. Also, and I’m glad to see some of the DBs finally doing this, is to have a quick-access edged weapon for when and if it does go to grappling. Quiclky draw and cut. A Spiderco P’Kal allows easy concealment, quick access, and the reverse grip/ edge in method is excellent from that range. It is something you have to practice though, whatever blade you choose. I have practiced literaly 1000s of quick draws from many positions in order to be able to do it correctly every time. I have tried this numerous times in my own sparring and it never fails to produce a favorable result. If you try and grapple with me, you WILL get cut.

  4. Tommy, fine and gross motor skills aside, I think it is also how you train. If none of those guys trained in siniwali and hubud then they certainly won’t be doing them in a fight. Likewise, if they have training in BJJ they will tend to use that. I think people tend to fight how they train, so when watching such matches you need to think: are these guys using certain principles outside of style or are they just fighting within their style?

    I see siniwali and hubud as flow drills, they are done repeatedly for flow and not for effect (if that makes sense) because the effect would be the flow stopping when met by the weapons impacting the body causing the damage. Think of it this way, how long would a 2 minute siniwali Youtube video last if the guy was getting hit each and everytime on the hand rather than the stick?

  5. James,

    Yes, well that is exactly my point. I actually know several full-fledged Dog Brothers and have trained with them including full-contact sparring. Some of them do, in fact, train those flow drills quite a bit. I will agree that in some cases they do provide a valuable platform to develop some skills. My point is, and you touched on it, that all of that goes out the window in a real fight. I am a pragmatist. If it doesn’t apply I don’t train it, instead opting for modification, methods, and skills that are directly applicable to a real fight. The Dog Brothers have a great saying: “If you see it taught, you see it fought”. I just believe that because of the adrenalin, stress-psychology factors involved the complexities of some things vanish in what Von Clausewitz referred to as “the fog of war”…

  6. well in the DBMA there are some grate enteries for the knee and leg shots and ther elosts of counters like the Retirada Ilustrisimo fot work
    in one video you can see and GRATE knee shoot (bad fot the reciver brock the knee in 2 parts)

    so yea if he cant walk he cant get to me hehe

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